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    • #1642


      My son 22 works for a firm doing CAD and acting as a Service manager. 8am – 5.30pm, 18.5K a year.
      The boss is a bit of a Berk and clicks his fingers at people and uses foul language towards the staff, including my son.
      My son though working there for 3 years has no contract.
      He has asked for a pay rise a few times in the past 6 months, which went from 8.50 ish to 8.90 ish.

      My son got to meet the CEO of a pretty good firm through his work and this after 2 informal and one formal interview has led to a job offer.

      8 – 5 a day, finish at 12 on Friday.

      Start on 20 K

      after 6 months 22k

      then a clear progression path to 30k

      an extra weeks how and all other proper company benefits and obviously a contract.

      He handed his notice in on Monday.

      His firm offered, 1.5 K raise + 1K at Christmas, 25 a week for fuel plus pay his phone £39 a month (ffs)

      He said No.

      Now they have offered £1k in his back pocket, immediately and a company corsa.

      This all sounds ace, but for my son this is huge pressure.

      Has the right to just tell them to leave him alone to work his notice?

      He has not gone into work today, because they are hassling him so much. He will therefore lose 8 days pay as he gave 2 weeks notice.

    • #1643


      I think it’s fairly normal for current employees to try and match offers, it’s annoying as you wonder why you weren’t more valued before but I don’t think it amounts to harassment. He should take it as a compliment, on the face of it he should also stick with the move but that’s his decision but I’d try and get a record of counter offers as current boss seems a bit amateurish and may start playing funny buggers with the reference (very, very unlikely)

    • #1644


      When you are young the key is to move around and gain as much expereince as possible.It will broaden his experience and knowledge.

      he should just ask them to respect his desire to move on and tell them that he has a good opinion of them and that they should leave it at that.

      He could also negotiate a better deal with his new employers.

      Always aim high when yiou are young…and learn through experience the art of negotiation.

      I would not worry about there being no contract.It basically means that the employer is in a weak position.

      • #1647


        He could also negotiate a better deal with his new employers.

        I would not think he should attempt to reopen this negotiation as it would show bad faith. However I do think he should make them aware of what he has been offered.

        TBH honest I am more interested in the employment law issues of no contract and what actually constitutes harassment in the work place.

      • #1648


        If there is no written contract there still is an implicit one which would use legal defaults (e.g. in terms of entitlement to things like statutory sick pay and statutory notice periods). I’m not sure what these all are, though.

    • #1645


      More money and a car isn’t going to stop his boss being an idiot. All your son needs to do is to remain calm and say he’s leaving. He should continue to go into work unless his boss’s behaviour becomes unbearable, but if he does not go into work, he should understand that he will lose financially. Having said that, it may be that the loss of a few days pay is a price worth paying.

    • #1646


      Any company who doesn’t want someone to leave will do that. It’s just a life lesson for him that sometimes the highest sum of money is not the only thing.

      It’s not harrassment, no. They want him to stay, so they are upping their offer to get him to stay. The only way he can deal with it is to make it clear (politely) that his decision is made. They will probably give up eventually.

      He should absolutely go in, because if he gets sacked for non-attendance they won’t give him a reference (or will just give him the classic “X was employed from date 1 to date 2 at this company”), though admittedly just giving that anyway is increasingly common. Much as I dislike lying it might in this odd case be in his interest to claim he was sick today to avoid awkward questions[1], but he shouldn’t do that again.

      [1] Note for any Googling employer – I have never actually done this…

    • #1649


      The newco’s offer is clearly better than even the uprated one at current place; they are only interested in persuading him to stay in the short term, with no career path beyond next week. If they have been treating him like this up until the point he hands his notice in, then why should things change in the future – his boss will not change, and will have the same conditions as before.

      In terms of contract, tribunals etc would look at what he has been used to in the 3 years, ans expect that to continue. In terms of sick pay / hols etc, there are strict legal minimums that the company will have to stick to anyway, and if there are others at the same company with broadly the same responsibilities, then he will be deemed to be on the same terms. It is very much in a company’s interests to provide a contract, and by not doing so, they have weakened their position should m’learned friend need to get involved.

    • #1650


      It’s not bad faith. He can put it across and say he was surprised that his current employer came back with a revised offer and leave it at that. Let his newco chew it over without it being done in bad faith. As you say he should let them know.

      Many company worth their salt understands that the prospective employee is trying to negotiate a good deal. It gives him respect for doing that.

      As others say there is an implicit contract. He could just leave now with no notice period if it is not written down in contract for example. No contract is in his favour.

      Forget the harassment to be honest.

    • #1652

      Dave b

      As mentioned above, this is standard practice. If he is a key employee, expect the offers from the current employer to increase as time runs down.

      It would also be worth asking his HR team about how much holiday he has has left. As we’re half way through the year he may have a number of days he could use, which would ease any pressure on him.

    • #1653


      I’d tell them, “I asked you for a pay rise, you gave me a pittance, demonstrating you didn’t think I was worth a lot. I’m leaving and we can either be civil about it, or I’ll leave sooner and we can go to a tribunal”

      Easy to say for me, because that’s how I am, for your son this might be too much. But it’s polite and truthful.

    • #1654


      Not really sure what the issue is, he would be mad to stay with the current company. He has already been offered the new job. I assume there is no offical notice period (if there is no contract) to work off so he should just leave immediately and tell the new company that he can start straight away.

    • #1655


      He needs to bite the bullet and move to the new company. A small financial sacrifice now will pay off in the end and will lead to bigger and better things for the future. People who move every 3-4 years are better experience and generally demand a higher wage by 15-20% than those who stay loyal to one company.

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