Forums General Chitchat Brexit. A lot of people just do not care.
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  • #1489
    Raff
    8 Posts

    It is interesting, if your living in a liberal bubble, you could be forgiven for thinking that Brexit is on the nation’s mind and lips.

    However, I suggest it is worth stepping out of your bubble. My wife for one has no interest, she voted, that’s it we are coming out, job sorted, move on.

    I have been asking a few of the drivers who deliver to me and deliver for me if they are concerned. One or two have strong views, that we should crack on and get out as soon as poss. But oddly the majority have no interest, know nothing about it, and do not want to know.

    The lads at the mechanics next door to me have no interest one way or the other. They nothing about it and do not want to know. Just saying.

  • #1490
    scats
    6 Posts

    Oh that’s alright then. There’s nothing to worry about if a lot of people don’t care.

  • #1491
    Norman
    6 Posts

    They’ll start caring soon enough, when things really start to bite.

    • #1492
      Raff
      8 Posts

      Maybe you are correct.

      Or maybe life will roll on, people get on with it. It gets harder, it gets easier, but life goes on.

      I have no idea, just pointing out many do not get worked up about these things.

      I would love it if they did, put May, Blair, Abbott, Osborne, Brown, Cameron, Corbyn and whole lot more up against a wall and shoot them.

      Thats what you can get when the majority do get revved up.

  • #1493
    ayme
    6 Posts

    I think most people are just totally overwhelmed by the sheer complexity of it all and have withdrawn into an ostrich like apathy.

    It’s a dangerous and alarming state for a country to be in.

    Blame Cameron and his Referendum……A disastrous leadership failure

    • #1494
      Norman
      6 Posts

      How did Cameron get the mood of the country so wrong?

      I understand that he called the referendum to silence the eurosceptics in his party but was he really so arrogant as to assume that winning would be so easy?

      His walking away from the mess that he created is unforgivable.

    • #1495
      Raff
      8 Posts

      I think most people are just totally overwhelmed by the sheer complexity of it all and have withdrawn into an ostrich like apathy.

      No, that’s not what I am saying. From my small sample, they are just not interested.
      Try step out of your bubble and talk to a few people who you would not normally engage with.

    • #1497
      ayme
      6 Posts

      Isn’t the reason they are not interested that they find the whole thing overwhelmingly complicated? I’m not interested in cricket because I don’t understand it

    • #1505
      Dax
      2 Posts

      Isn’t the reason they are not interested that they find the whole thing overwhelmingly complicated? I’m not interested in cricket because I don’t understand it

      A lot of the people I talk to out and about are not interested because in their words. “it doesn’t matter who is in charge, they only look after themselves and we get shafted every time” when I ask if they vote so that they can have a say in who is running things I almost always get the same answer “no I don’t vote, no point to it they are all the same” I suspect if the don’t vote brigade had gone to vote on Brexit leave would have had a far bigger majority.

    • #1507
      millie
      3 Posts

      I voted remain and every member of my family voted leave. It caused unbelievable tension. But it’s patronising in the extreme to state they did so because they didn’t understand it. Nobody did. I didn’t vote remain because I understood it. I did so because I’m happy with my life and don’t really see the need to rock the boat.

    • #1499
      Gary
      5 Posts

      I agree. The thing is you need a PhD to even begin to understand the complexities of it…which was why a referendum was such a stupid F**cking idea arghhhh! Ostrich-like apathy I think describes perfectly the state of much of the country.

    • #1501
      sel
      3 Posts

      LOL, I have a degree, which I have been studying for the last 6 years at the OU in many of the issues surrounding this subject, and I would say that many in the bubble, know jack shit about the complexities of the subject. Many cannot even see alternate perspectives. There are some notable exceptions but not many!

      At least i know that I do not know many things, and will seek out alternate views, which is light years on from some.

      • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  sel.
  • #1496
    Clare
    9 Posts

    My bubble is very large – between hundreds of friends and colleagues about 3 voted to leave the EU and most of the rest are well annoyed by it. I am well aware that my bubble doesn’t represent the wider world around us.

  • #1498
    Dave b
    5 Posts

    That sounds like an argument for not leaving, and saving ourselves the bother. Just tell everyone we’ve left and carry on as normal. Most people won’t be all that bothered. Chuck a few quid at the editor of the Express, and we can keep it under the table.

  • #1500
    Springer
    10 Posts

    I am of the opinion that not-caring is negligent. The world is facing multiple crises of which Brexit is possibly the *least* significant but all of these crises stem from the same causes: ignorance, fear, xenophobia, economic disparity, unbridled rhetoric, duplicity in public office even at the highest tier, and a slide towards fascism among others.

    Today, it is ones highest duty to care. One should exercise their citizenship.

  • #1503
    winters
    2 Posts

    Not a big surprise. If there weren’t a large number of voters who were completely clueless about the implications of Brexit then there wouldn’t have been a Leave vote. If things go much further then reality will give them a kick up the ar*e and they may well get really angry with the people who sold them a pup.

  • #1504
    tomtom
    6 Posts

    Well people I know who voted Brexit basically did as they have nothing to lose. They work stupid hours on zero hour contracts and cannot even afford a 2 bedroom run down terrace house in the middle of a old council estate. So are forced to spend all their money on rent. And nothing looks like it’s gonna change that. Think they give a flying f*ck that some banker can’t go the casino every day or that we will all have to start eating Greek style yogurt instead of the real deal? Nah.

  • #1506
    Glenn
    3 Posts

    Aren’t you just saying that if you talk to a lot of people, many of them aren’t engaged in politics?

    This is the world. It’s a flaw in democracy (though it’s better than the alternatives): you’re asking people to make decisions, but many of them just aren’t really interested and therefore don’t know what they’re talking about. With Brexit specifically, it’s an incredibly boring issue of governance and trade regulations and I personally have no knowledge nor expertise to contribute. I listened to the arguments and while one side was far more convincing than the other, moreover one side was composed of people whom I consider to be entirely motivated by their own self-interest and have no regard for objective analysis of evidence to find good solutions to improve our society, so it was easy to make a decision. But had I not followed politics for a while I wouldn’t have had a clue which way to vote other than on meaningless tribal/emotional/irrelevant grounds, and after that, I wouldn’t have any interest. It is very, very boring. But unfortunately it’s also quite important because it will affect our standard of living and the opportunities available to us and our children. Oh dear.

  • #1508
    Harvey
    8 Posts

    My personal view is short to medium it will probably be shit. Medium to long, it may be for the best.
    Personally I think that as Asia and Africa creep up into the middleclass and start affording bikes, moped, cars, shoes, mattresses etc, the huge opportunities for commercial growth are going to be there, rather than in the european markets which are over supplied (there is a better word).

    But the fact is no one really know. They just have opinions, often based of personal self interest and fear.

    • #1515
      jk
      4 Posts

      My personal view is short to medium it will probably be shit. Medium to long, it may be for the best.

      Personally, I don’t see the benefit in leaving long term. Aside from the economic pointlessness of it all I also consider it a shameful abdication of our responsibility to stabilize the environment in which we live. The EU will be making the same trade deals with developing nations we’ll be going for in similar time frames but at a fraction of the cost and from a much a stronger negotiating position. We’ll also be facing huge additional costs by forgoing the biggest, closest, most closely aligned market. Talk this week is of joining a Pacific trading bloc, we don’t have a Pacific coast plus it’s the other side of the world even if we ignore the additional risk of reliance on the canals.

      The big issue is how much of our economy and the infrastructure and skills if provides for will be left after the medium term (that’s my whole working life being blithely glossed over in those two little words) pain. My bet is not very much at all, we’ll be a big tax haven with the bad neighbourly relations that entails, our manufacturing sector will be decimated, our public services will have been run down and sold off, only the rich will have meaningful access to them like in America. As opportunities wane the skilled of my generation and the next will just leave and as the tax base collapses those skills will not be replaced and investment will fall further we leave ourselves not a highly competitive knowledge based economy which attracts skills but one where relatively few with money are well educated in a narrow range of skills. What is everyone else supposed to do? Well they might subsist on a basic income which seems unlikely or their labour may be sold cheaper, their rights diminished to improve competitiveness for those still willing to do business here. They won’t like it but they might just be denied the ability to cause trouble or they may be turned upon each other.

      > Personally I think that as Asia and Africa creep up into the middle class and start affording bikes, moped, cars, shoes, mattresses etc, the huge opportunities for commercial growth are going to be there, rather than in the European markets which are oversupplied (there is a better word).

      What do you think will stop those nations that have grown by manufacturing goods for export from either continuing to manufacture for the domestic market or outsourcing to the next wave of poor nations? Or for that matter the EU (which isn’t facing 20+ years of severe hardship) out-competing us?

      But the fact is no one really know. They just have opinions, often based of personal self-interest and fear.

      There are lots of very good, well-tested models for how adding or removing barriers changes trade. The Govian idea that nobody knows how this works, that all outcomes are equiprobable is really dangerous. We do understand our world quite well, of course, we can’t see the future but we can make very good estimates. If I put a loaded gun to my head and pull the trigger I don’t *know* I’ll die. It might jam, or ricochet off my skull merely scalping me, I might just blow away a bit of my brain leaving me vegetative, I might even miss. What I do know is that it’s not a very good idea, that the most probable outcomes are overwhelmingly probable and under most circumstances would be considered bad.

      I’d love to believe it’ll probably mostly just be ok, indeed for me it may be, I can (for now at least) still leave but I think ultimately brexit will devastate the UK as we’ve known it, indeed there may not even be a United Kingdom by the time this has fully played out.

  • #1509
    Bob
    5 Posts

    The whole thing is a mess. To be honest, the only thing that matters to me is that my position as an ex-pat ( of 35 years) has been sorted. Apart from that I feel that people are going to get the nasty future they deserve. Democracy is all well and good but it comes also with responsibilty, to at least have a clear understanding of what we are voting for when we put the piece of paper in the box. Crying afterwards that they were duped is too easy.

  • #1510
    Easypeasy
    1 Posts

    Voting for Brexit didn’t have to lead to this mess.
    We’re in a mess because politicians have failed to grasp the nettle that leaving entails.
    That’s if we ever do leave.

    • #1511
      Micky
      1 Posts

      Unfortunately vote leave made this outcome incredibly likely.

      They had a deliberate strategy of not explaining what brexit would look like, because they knew that any clarification would split the brexit vote.

      Then, after the vote, brexiters demanded the early signing of article 50, setting the clock ticking.

      The mess has been totally inevitable, ever since.

      I think many of the chief brexiters (Johnson, farage, Davis) now look like the dog who caught the car, and they haven’t got a clue what to do with it. The only happy brexiters are the extremists (Jrm etc) who really don’t care how many million eggs get broken, as long as they get their omelette

    • #1512
      Bob
      5 Posts

      But you did vote for it and it has lead to this mess.

    • #1513
      JGC
      15 Posts

      Actually the way our political classes of all persuasions have dealt with this issue has led to this mess.

      Teresa did not have to trigger article 50 so quckly.
      Cameron should not have called a referendum
      Remain should not have threatened people.
      Leave should not have lied.
      The Tories should have stopped all their in fighting.
      Labour should have stopped all their in fighting.

      and the list could go on.

      But criticisng for voting is unhlepful.

      EDIT and as my Dad says, if they had not lied when we went in, we would not have been in it anyway.

    • #1514
      Bob
      5 Posts

      But criticisng for voting is unhlepful.

      Definitely, but perhaps we could resort to bribery? Rerun the referendum and include a clause where young people get some money to buy a house if we remain in the EU. Or just offer people actual cash. This is how much we will lose if we leave, and you can just have it in cash instead if we stay. What do you fancy? Though clearly, my political ideas are simplistic and quite extreme. Mind you its one of my more moderate ones as people who have met me will attest. Think I will just stick to computers.

    • #1516
      jk
      4 Posts

      Voting for Brexit didn’t have to lead to this mess

      Yes it did. There is no plan that can deliver what people were promised, there are as many versions of brexit as there are voters, many of them utterly contradictory, none of them make us stronger or wealthier. Chaos was the only given when you put your X in that box.

      That’s if we ever do leave.

      50:50, as it has been since the vote, problem is the leave option is getting more and more dangerous.

  • #1517
    dom123
    1 Posts

    We need a second referendum but this time: No vote for anybody aged over 70 – this is not their future we are voting for. Vote for 16-18 year-olds – this is THEIR future we are voting for. I bet the result will be very different.

    • #1518
      jk
      4 Posts

      I get the point you’re making but a referendum isn’t just about a population making a decision let alone a good decision.

      We elect parliamentarians to make decisions if pressed hard they can to make this one. A referendum on the terms of our departure is about checking this is really what we want to do, that we still want to do it risks and compromises and all, more to the point it’s about people feeling it is their informed choice and (though it will fail) about delivering some closure. Hopefully, we confer some legitimacy on the decision, if the choices we face are clear it should be decisive and final (and it’ll probably be a thumping leave) which is a good thing if not a good choice. For these reasons we shouldn’t impose the qualified majority threshold the first referendum should have had (but it didn’t because it wasn’t about making a choice either) nor should we disenfranchise the elderly. Excluding the young is a tougher call, they should have had a say in 2016 but since they didn’t introducing them now to skew the result will create more problems than it solves. I don’t want to leave, I think it will be damaging and dangerous but if a majority still do in light of the facts, not the fairy tales then we should. Those of us who can’t live with the new arrangement is free to leave and we will in droves.

      Separating fact from fairy-tale and ensuring the choice is free and fair is the challenge, our democracy has been abused and undermined, it needs some care and maintenance.

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